* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Human Relations Commission on October 17, 2024.] [00:00:02] OKAY. SO I'VE GOT FOUR O'CLOCK. READY? YES. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, IT IS TIME TO CONVENE THE OCTOBER DECATUR HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION MEETING. AND, UH, I WOULD, UH, CALL THE ROLE CHAIRPERSON ZA. HERE. VICE CHAIRPERSON GOODMAN. HERE. COMMISSIONER SCH LEADER HERE. COMMISSIONER WINDS. COMMISSIONER KELLER. COMMISSIONER MCREYNOLDS. HERE. COMMISSIONER IBRAHAM. HIM. COMMISSIONER PELLS HERE. OKAY. AND COMMISSIONER ER HERE. I THINK WE HAVE SIX, WHICH IS A QUORUM SO WE CAN CONTINUE AND DO BUSINESS. UM, I WOULD PAUSE FOR THE APPEARANCE OF CITIZENS. AND I THINK WE HAVE NO AUDIENCE TODAY, SO I WOULD MOVE TO, UH, UH, ACCEPT A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF SEPTEMBER MINUTES. SO, MOVE JERRY PELLS MOVES. SECOND. SECOND. AND I'M GONNA SAY MARCH LEADER. UH, SECOND. MAY YOU TAKE THE RULE FOR THAT. UM, I WASN'T AT THE MEETING. CAN I, I, MAYBE I CAN'T APPROVE 'EM THEN OR CAN'T BE. SO I RESCIND THAT. I MOVED. WE ACCEPT THE MOTIONS. UH, I WITHIN MINUTES. SO SHOULD WE ASSUME THAT, UH, VICE CHAIR GOODMAN, UH, SECONDS. SECOND . SO COMMISSIONER SCH MAKES THE MOTION AND VICE CHAIRMAN, UH, UH, SECOND. SO CHAIR PERSON. SKER AYE. VICE CHAIRPERSON. GOODMAN AYE. COMMISSIONER SCHLATER. AYE. COMMISSIONER OWENS. COMMISSIONER KELLER. COMMISSIONER MCREYNOLDS. AYE. COMMISSIONER I, ABRAHAM COMMISSIONER PELLS. AB COMMISSIONER. ELLER ABSTAIN. SO THE MOTION WOULD BE APPROVED. WE HAD A MAJORITY VOTING. THANK YOU. UH, THE NEXT ITEM BUSINESS WOULD BE THE MONTHLY ACTIVITY REPORT. WE'LL CALL ON OUR INVESTIGATOR FRED SPAN TO FILL US IN. OKAY. UH, FRED SPAN CONTRACT INVESTIGATOR FOR THE COMMISSION. BUT IF YOU FLIP TO, UH, THE PAGE THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS ON YOUR PACKET, UH, I'LL RUN THROUGH THE, THE CASES THAT HAVE BEEN PROCESSED. QUITE A FEW HAVE BEEN PROCESSED. UH, THE TOP ONE IS ONE YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH. 2 3 0 8 3 1 LACHE LEE, THE EAGLE RIDGE OF DECATUR. UH, THAT'S THE ONE THAT, THAT YOU HELD A HEARING ON. AND THE COMMISSION AT ITS LAST MEETING IN SEPTEMBER DISMISSED THE, THE CASE, UH, BASED ON THE NON-APPEARANCE OF THE COMPLAINANT AT THE HEARING. UH, SO THAT CASE IS CLOSED. UH, JUST SO YOU KNOW, IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT WHERE IT'S A, A RULING OF THE COMMISSION, THAT RULING IS FINAL. THERE'S NO APPEAL THROUGH THE COMMISSION. IF A PERSON WISHED TO APPEAL THAT, THEY TAKE IT TO, UH, THE CIRCUIT COURT. 2 4 0 7 1 1. THAT'S FROM JULY OF THIS YEAR. RACE DISCRIMINATION AND EMPLOYMENT TERMINATION, UH, CONDUCTED THE INITIAL INTERVIEW IN JULY, FOUND REASONABLE SUSPICION. UH, WHILE I WAS WAITING FOR THE RESPONDENT TO, TO GIVE THEIR RESPONSE, THE RESPONDENT GOT IN TOUCH AND SAID, WE'D LIKE TO TRY TO MEDIATE THIS AND REACH A SETTLEMENT. THE COMPLAINANT AGREED, UH, ON, UH, MONDAY, I GUESS, YEAH, THE 15TH WAS THAT MONDAY OR TU TUESDAY. UH, WE MEDIATED FOR CLOSE TO THREE HOURS AND THEY DID NOT COME TO AN AGREEMENT. UH, THEY WERE MILES APART AND THEY WERE STILL MILES APART AT THE END. SO, UH, I'VE GIVEN THE RESPONDENT TWO WEEKS TO PREPARE A RESPONSE. SO THAT RESPONSE WILL BE DUE TO ME ON THE, UH, SAY THAT [00:05:01] WOULD BE THE 29TH OF THIS MONTH. UH, 2 4 0 8 1 6. UH, ANOTHER RACE DISCRIMINATION AND EMPLOYMENT WITH TERMINATION, UH, FOUND REASONABLE SUSPICION IN AUGUST. UH, AND THE DEADLINE FOR THE RESPONSE IS, UH, TOMORROW. SO WE HOPE TO HAVE A RESPONSE TOMORROW AND THEN WE'LL LAUNCH THE INVESTIGATION AT THAT POINT. ONCE WE HAVE BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY. 2 4 0 9 1 0. THAT'S SEPTEMBER 10TH OF THIS YEAR. UH, THE, IN THIS CASE, I INTERVIEWED THE COMPLAINANT, UH, FOUND POSSIBLE, UH, REASONABLE SUSPICION. AND WHEN I SAY THAT, WHAT I MEAN IS THE COMPLAINANT SAID THAT THEY HAD SEVERAL WITNESSES, AND I THINK THEY GAVE SEVEN NAMES, BUT THOSE WERE FIRST NAMES ONLY. THEY SAID, I DON'T HAVE THEIR LAST NAME, BUT I CAN GET YOU THEIR LAST NAME AND I CAN GET YOU THEIR PHONE NUMBER. AND THERE WAS AN, AND THEN THERE WAS AN EIGHTH PERSON WHO THEY SAID, I DON'T NEED, I DON'T KNOW THEIR NAME, BUT I, BUT I CAN GET YOU THAT, THEIR NAME. AND I SAID, LISTEN, WE NEED, WE NEED MORE THAN THAT. SO I PREPARED A FORM FOR THIS PERSON WITH THE NAMES AND SAID, YOU GET ME THESE NAMES, FIRST NAME, LAST NAME, AND PHONE NUMBERS, AND WE'LL PROCESS THE CASE. UH, AND WE, UH, HAD A FORM WAITING AT THE HR OFFICE. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT FORM IS STILL WAITING AT THE FRONT DESK OF THE OFFICE. I CALLED THE COMPLAINANT TODAY 'CAUSE IT HAD BEEN ABOUT, UH, WELL, SEPTEMBER 10TH HAD BEEN, UH, ALMOST A MONTH SINCE WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION. UH, AND THEY SAID, WELL, I HAVEN'T BEEN DOWN THERE. THERE WAS A DEATH IN THE FAMILY. I'M OUT OF TOWN. I SAID, I, I'VE BEEN OUT OF TOWN. I SAID, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I REALLY NEED YOU TO, TO GET ME THAT INFORMATION BEFORE WE CAN PROCEED. AND, UH, I FURTHER TOLD THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, IF I DON'T, YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER MONTH. YOU, IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T GET THAT WITHIN A MONTH, I'M GONNA HAVE TO DISMISS THE CASE BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO GO ON. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THAT ONE STANDS. UH, 2 4 1 0 0 2. UH, WE GOT THE YOU MA FILE FORM AND LEARNED THAT THE ALLEGATION WAS AGAINST A QUASI-GOVERNMENTAL BODY THAT IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE CITY. NOW REMEMBER THIS ONE, 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA GET BACK TO THIS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE, THE ORDINANCE, UH, UH, I CONSULTED WITH MS. ROGERS AND WITH AMY WAX, AND WE DETERMINED THAT THAT COULD BE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST TO PROCESS A CASE, ALTHOUGH IT WAS NOT DIRECTLY AGAINST THE CITY. UH, THERE'S A COUPLE OF, OF GOVERNMENTAL UNITS THAT ARE NOT INDEPENDENT ENTITIES THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY THE CITY. UH, AND AGAIN, WE'LL GET BACK TO THAT BECAUSE I'M GONNA SUGGEST THAT MAYBE WE ADDRESS THAT IN THE CODE. UH, BUT, UH, THE COMPLAINANT WAS REFERRED TO IDHR. I BELIEVE THAT THEY CAME IN WITHIN MINUTES AND PICKED UP THE FORMS FOR IDHR. SO, SO ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RIGHTS WILL BE PROCESSING THAT. UH, THEN THE NEXT 1, 2 4 1 0 0 3, OCTOBER 3RD, UH, RECEIVED, AGAIN, RECEIVED THAT YOU MAY FILE FORM. AND THE ALLEGED, THE MOST RECENT ELECT, ALLEGED ACT OF DISCRIMINATION, WAS IN DECEMBER OF 2023. AND MAY REMEMBER FROM OUR CODE, YOU HAVE TO FILE WITHIN, WITHIN 180 DAYS OF THE MOST RECENT ALLEGED ACT OF DISCRIMINATION WERE OUTSIDE THAT WINDOW. UH, THAT WINDOW ENDED IN JUNE OF THIS YEAR. UH, ALSO LEARNED THAT THE CASE HAD ALREADY BEEN HANDLED BY THE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION, UH, WHICH HAD ISSUED A RIGHT TO SUE LETTER. LET ME STOP FOR JUST A SECOND. WHEN THE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION GETS A CASE, IT DETERMINES WHETHER OR NOT IT WI IT WISHES TO PROCESS THE CASE. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW THEY DO THAT. THEY LOOK FOR CASES THAT ARE BIG. YOU KNOW, WHERE THERE'S A, A MAJOR IMPACT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THERE MIGHT BE SEVERAL, UH, ALLEGED VICTIMS. UH, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR CASES THAT ARE, THAT ARE PRETTY CLEAR DISCRIMINATION. I THINK IF THEY, IF THEY DON'T TAKE A CASE, AND I, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEIR CRITERIA ARE, BUT IF THEY DON'T TAKE A CASE, THEY ALWAYS ISSUE A RIGHT TO SUE LETTER. AND THAT MEANS WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE YOUR CASE. BUT YOU MAY, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO SUE, UH, YOU KNOW, IN, IN ESSENCE, A PERSON CAN SUE AT ANY TIME ANYWAY. BUT THIS KINDA GIVES THEM SOME, SOME BACKGROUND TO TAKE IT TO COURT. UH, YOU, YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT WE DISCUSSED [00:10:02] ALTERING OUR CODE TO SAY THAT. AND, UH, THE COMMISSION WANTED TO DO THIS, THAT WHEN WE DO AMEND THE CODE TO INCLUDE THAT IF SOMEBODY COFI WITH EEOC OR IDHR, THAT WE WILL NOT ACCEPT THE CASE, THAT ONLY ONE BODY WILL ACCEPT IT. THAT'S NOT OUR RULE YET. BUT WE, BUT WE HAVE, UH, KIND OF A WORKING RULE THAT IF SOMEBODY ELSE HAS ALREADY HANDLED THE CASE AND IT'S THE SAME SET OF FACTS, WE'RE NOT GONNA REVIVE A DEAD CASE. UH, AND SO I CALLED, I CALLED THE COMPLAINANT, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE VERY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE CANNOT ACCEPT THE CASE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN ADJUDICATED AND IT'S MORE THAN SIX MONTHS OLD. UH, HE ALSO MENTIONED, OR THAT PERSON THEN MENTIONED THAT THE, THAT, UH, THE CASE WAS ALREADY IN COURT. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S VERY LITTLE WE COULD DO. WE DISMISSED THE CASE AND, UH, INFORMED THE COMPLAINANT OF THEIR RIGHT TO REVIEW, TO REQUEST A REVIEW. SO THAT'S OUR, OUR CASE LIST AS OF RIGHT NOW. ANY QUESTIONS ON ANY OF THE ABOVE? I HAVE A QUESTION ON TWO, UH, UH, THE, THE LAST ONE YOU JUST MENTIONED, UM, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DOUBLE FILING, AREN'T WE KIND OF THE LOWEST LEVEL FOR A PERSON TO FILE? AND, UM, WOULDN'T IT USUALLY COME BEFORE? IF SOMEBODY'S ALREADY BEEN TO AN A HIGHER ONE, WHY WOULD THEY GO TO A LOWER ONE? UH, IS THERE A REASON FOR THAT? YEAH, I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION AND KIND OF THE PREMISE BEHIND YOUR QUESTION IS FAULTY IN THAT YOU DON'T GO FROM THE CITY TO THE STATE, TO THE FEDS. YOU STARTED THAT AT ANY LEVEL. AND, UH, ALL OF THOSE ARE APPEALABLE ONLY TO THE COURTS. SO, SO, SO IF YOU LOSE AT THE CITY LEVEL, YOU DON'T GO TO THE STATE, YOU GO TO THE COURT. IF YOU LOSE AT THE STATE LEVEL, YOU DON'T GO TO THE FEDS, YOU GO TO THE COURT. SO EVEN THOUGH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S MUCH BIGGER AND MORE IMPORTANT THAN STATE GOVERNMENT, AND STATE GOVERNMENT'S BIGGER AND MORE IMPORTANT THAN CITY GOVERNMENT, UH, THEY, THEY ALL ARE INVESTIGATIVE BODIES THAT MAKE A DETERMINATION OF PROBABLE CAUSE. AND, UH, SO I THINK THE, THE DESIRE OF THE COMMISSION, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WAS THAT IT MAKES NO SENSE TO HAVE TWO INVESTIGATIVE BODIES DOING THE, YOU KNOW, PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS BASED ON THE SAME FACTS. OKAY. UH, THANK YOU. UH, THE SECOND ONE WAS OUR, UM, I I'M UNDER, UNDER THE, UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT QUASI, UM, CITY, UH, AGENCIES LATER IN THE MEETING. I'M GONNA ADD THAT TO OUR DISCUSSION ON, IN FACT, I'LL GET TO THAT AS SOON AS WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ORDER BUSINESS. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. UH, ANY OTHER MR. SPAN? OKAY. SO WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GOING TO RETURN TO OUR DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE REVISIONS IN, UH, CITY CODE, UH, CHAPTER 28. OKAY. AND, UM, WHY DON'T YOU LEAD US INTO THE, UH, NEXT ISSUE. YEAH. OKAY. SO, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE, UH, THINGS ABOUT DOING THIS KINDA WORK IS, DO YOU THINK YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING COVERED? THEN A CASE HITS, YOU SAY, OH, THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT? AND THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS, UH, THE CITY, LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY. THE CODE CURRENTLY PROHIBITS FILING AGAINST THE CITY, BUT ONLY FOR EMPLOYMENT CASES. UH, AND SO I WANT YOU TO CONSIDER THAT IT'S CONCEIVABLE AT LEAST THAT THE CITY COULD BE, UH, CHARGED OR THERE COULD BE AN ALLEGATION OF DISCRIMINATION REGARDING THE CITY AND PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS. THE CITY IS A PUBLIC, PUBLIC PLACE. UH, THERE, THERE COULD BE POTENTIALLY A CHARGE OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE CITY IN HOUSING, IF THE CITY WAS TEMPORARILY, YOU KNOW, OWNING PROPERTY, WHICH IT DOES, IT'S BOUGHT PROPERTY AND, YOU KNOW, TRANSFERRED PROPERTY TO NONPROFITS AND, AND TO INDIVIDUAL OWNERS THAT SOLD SIDE LOTS. THAT, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I THINK THE CITY HAS SOLD SIDE LOTS TO ADJACENT OWNERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THAT, I'M NOT SAYING THE CITY WOULD DISCRIMINATE, BUT I'M SAYING YOU CAN IMAGINE A CASE WHERE SOMEBODY WOULD BRING A CHARGE OF DISCRIMINATION BASED ON THAT. UH, AS FAR AS FINANCIAL CREDIT, I DON'T KNOW IF THE CITY IS INVOLVED WITH, WITH LOANS. UH, I, AT ONE TIME, THE CITY HAD A, AND YOU MIGHT REMEMBER THIS, UH, COMMISSIONER GOODMAN, UH, [00:15:01] THE CITY HAD A KIND OF A CORPORATION THAT IT CONTROLLED CALLED DCDF THAT MADE LOANS FOR HOME REHAB. AND, UH, I THINK MAYBE EVEN A WHEELCHAIR RAMP ACCESSIBILITY AND THINGS. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT GROUP STILL EXISTS, BUT THAT WOULD BE THE TYPE OF GROUP. IT HAS ITS OWN BOARD, BUT IT'S NOT SEPARATE FROM THE CITY. UH, OTHER EXAMPLES WOULD BE THE BUS SYSTEM. THE BUS SYSTEM IS NOT A SEPARATE CORPORATION. AND I, I TALKED WITH, UH, OR I EMAILED WITH MS. WAX ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW, AND THE LIBRARY WOULD BE ANOTHER EXAMPLE. UH, THE LIBRARY IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE CITY. THE CITY APPOINTS THE LIBRARY BOARD. THE LIBRARY IS NOT A SEPARATE TAXING BODY. WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR PROPERTY TAX, YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE THE LIBRARY THERE. I DON'T THINK YOU'LL, THAT'S UNDER THE CITY, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT THE CITY ALLOCATES MONEY TO THE LIBRARY? I BELIEVE SO, YEAH. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THE SAME THING AS LIKE THE PARK DISTRICT OR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. UH, THOSE ARE TOTALLY INDEPENDENT BODIES. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S OTHER EXAMPLES. UH, SO, AND I, UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T HAVE LANGUAGE TO SUGGEST, BUT I WANNA JUST KINDA HAVE THIS DISCUSSION IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, GET YOUR VIEWS ON THIS. UH, UM, MS. WAX, I SUGGESTED SOME LANGUAGE TO HER AND SHE SAID, I WANNA THINK ABOUT THAT LANGUAGE I HAVEN'T HEARD BACK AS OF TODAY. UH, AND SO I'M NOT SUGGESTING INSERTING THAT LANGUAGE AT THIS POINT, 'CAUSE I REALLY WANNA GET LANGUAGE FROM HER. BUT I'M SUGGESTING THAT SOMEWHERE TOWARDS THE TOP OF THIS, COVERING ALL TYPES OF DISCRIMINATION, NOT JUST EMPLOYMENT, BUT COVERING HOUSING, CREDIT, PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS, UH, THAT WE WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT THE HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION SHALL NOT PROCESS ANY CHARGE OR COMPLAINT AGAINST THE CITY OF DECATUR OR ANY ENTITY DIRECTLY UNDER ITS CONTROL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UH, SO IT WOULD, WOULD JUST COVER THAT, UH, YEAH, THAT, LET'S SAY THERE'S ONE, THIS MAY ANSWER AN UPCOMING QUESTION. WHY IS THAT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST? UH, AND THE ROLE OF, UH, OF MYSELF, BUT MORE DIRECTLY THE ROLE OF SOMEONE LIKE AMY W OR THE HR DEPARTMENT, UH, IS NOT TO BE ON THE SIDE OF THE COMPLAINANT, NOT TO BE ON THE SIDE OF THE RESPONDENT, BUT TO BE ADVOCATES FOR THE PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THE PROCESS ITSELF IS FAIR. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES. SEE A FEW HEADS NODDING. SO THEY, THEIR LOYALTY, THEIR FIRST LOYALTY IS TO THE PROCESS. AND MY FIRST LOYALTY AS AN INVESTIGATOR IS TO THE PROCESS. IT'S NOT TO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. I HAVE TO BE FAIR, AND THE CITY HAS TO BE FAIR, BUT IF YOU PUT SOMEONE LIKE PENNY ROGERS, AMY WAX IN A POSITION WHERE THEIR FIRST LOYALTY IS TO THE PROCESS, BUT THEIR PAYCHECK IS FROM ONE OF THE PARTIES THAT'S INVOLVED, THAT PUTS THEM IN A, IN A DIFFICULT POSITION, UH, AT THE SAME TIME THERE'S ANOTHER AVENUE PEOPLE CAN TAKE THOSE TO THE STATE. UH, SO THAT'S KIND OF MY PITCH I WANT, SO, DISCUSS, AGAIN, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT NOBODY SAW COMING. I, I THINK THAT MAKES GOOD SENSE. THAT, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE'S AN OBVIOUS CONFLICT THAT WOULD EXIST THERE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT DIRECTLY, IT'S A, IT'S AN INDIRECT CONFLICT THAT WOULD HAPPEN. AND, UM, I THINK WE PROBABLY NEED TO EXCLUDE ANYTHING THAT WOULD, UH, FALL, THAT WOULD FALL UNDER ANY OF THE AUSPICES OF THE CITY. NOT JUST DIRECT, NOT JUST DIRECT, BUT ANY, YOU KNOW, TANGENTIAL ONES. YEAH. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY GROUPS LIKE THIS THERE ARE. I MEAN, I, THOSE ARE THE THREE THAT I WAS KIND OF AWARE OF, BUT THERE MIGHT BE OTHERS, YOU KNOW? YEAH. THAT WAS, THAT WAS KIND OF WHERE I WAS GOING WITH MY QUESTION EARLIER OF, UH, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? 'CAUSE I, I, I DIDN'T THINK OF ANYTHING RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. YEAH. AND THERE MAY BE OTHERS THAT WOULD BE, UH, YEAH. I DON'T WANNA PUT YOU ON THE SPOT THERE, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE LEGAL COUNSEL WOULD PROBABLY BE AWARE OF, OR THE CITY MANAGER WOULD BE AWARE OF WHO ELSE IS OUT THERE THAT, THAT IS UNDER THE DIRECT CONTROL, THE CITY AND, YOU KNOW, THE CITY APPOINTS THEIR, THEIR ENTIRE BOARD AND THAT KIND OF THING. JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY, WOULD THE DECATUR HOUSING AUTHORITY? NO. OH. UH, WELL, BOY, THAT'S INTERESTING. THEIR BOARD IS APPOINTED BY THE CITY. THEY ARE A SEPARATE, A TOTALLY SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITY, BUT THEIR BOARD IS, IS APPOINTED COMPLETELY BY THE CITY, WHICH IS INTERESTING BECAUSE THE HOUSING AUTHORITIES GEOGRAPHIC AREA IS MACON COUNTY . UH, AS FAR AS I KNOW, [00:20:01] UH, THAT'S INTERESTING. THAT WOULD, THAT'S GREAT POINT. I DON'T KNOW. I, I THINK I AGREE WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER PELL'S POINT ABOUT, UH, TRYING TO AVOID THE APPEARANCE OF CONFLICT, EVEN IF, IF YOU AND, UH, EVERYBODY ELSE CONNECTED WITH THIS WOULD OPERATE, UH, IN YOUR USUAL PROFESSIONAL WAY. MM-HMM. PEOPLE COULD SEE IT IF THEY WERE LOOKING AT THE PROCESS SAYING, WELL, THIS JUST ISN'T FAIR FROM THE GET GO. MM-HMM. . WELL, AND IF I MIGHT ADD, I, I THINK IT'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. EVEN. I MEAN, WE ARE APPOINTED BY THE CITY, THE MAYOR. MM-HMM. AS THE COMMISSION. SO IT WOULD BE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S MY FEELING. YEAH. EVEN ON OUR PART. YEAH, EXACTLY. YEAH. YOU WOULD'VE TROUBLE, AND IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU WOULDN'T BE FAIR, BUT IT MEAN IT'D BE HARDER TO BE FAIR IN A HEARING SITUATION, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU'RE, YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF, UH, YOU KNOW, RULING AGAINST THE BODY THAT APPOINTED YOU TO THIS, AND YOU ARE A CITY BODY. YEAH. THE FACT THAT THERE ARE OTHER AVENUES FOR A COMPLAINANT, UH, POTENTIAL COMPLAINANT TO USE, I, I THINK MAKES THIS AN EASIER DECISION. SO, SO I THINK WHAT I NEED TO DO IS TO GET BACK WITH MS. W, UH, I'M GONNA MENTION THE HOUSING AUTHORITY, BUT, YOU KNOW, SO THINK ABOUT THAT. THE ISSUE IS HOW, HOW YOU DEFINE THESE BODIES. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT THE LANGUAGE IS THERE TO DEFINE THAT. THAT'LL, AT SOME POINT, WOULD IT BE ADVANTAGEOUS TO TRY TO, UH, PIN DOWN JUST LISTINGS, UH, THE HOUSING AUTHORITY MIGHT BE ONE EXAMPLE, BUT JUST TO INDICATE FOR OUR OWN PURPOSES, WHICH OF THE AGENCIES WOULD, UH, HAVE THIS POTENTIAL CONFLICT AND BE, UH, RULED OUT FOR, UH, FOLLOWING, UH, FOLLOWING A COMPLAINT. THAT'S A GREAT POINT TOO. UH, SO WHO, WHO MIGHT BE UNDER THIS UMBRELLA? THE, THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS? ARE YOU IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT'S BEEN STATED BY THREE OF YOU? YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE A CONSENSUS. OKAY. WE'LL, WE'LL WORK ON THAT. UH, OKAY. AND NOW WE'RE, UH, ON THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION, UH, WHICH A DISCUSSION THAT WE STARTED LAST MONTH AND, AND DEFERRED BECAUSE WE WERE OUT OF TIME. UH, SO THAT'S THE LAST PAGE OF YOUR PACKET, FRONT AND BACK. UH, OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE HAS THREE REFERENCES TO RELIGION, UH, IN ARTICLE TWO, WHICH ARTICLE TWO IS ALL THE DEFINITIONS. YEAH. JUST A SEVERAL PAGES OF DEFINITIONS. IT SAYS, RELIGION INCLUDES ALL ASPECTS OF RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCE AND PRACTICE, AS WELL AS BELIEF. EXCEPT THAT WITH RESPECT TO EMPLOYERS FOR THE PURPOSES OF ARTICLE SIX, RELIGION HAS THE MEANING ASCRIBED TO IT IN SIX DASH ONE LI BELIEVE THAT IS, UH, AND ARTICLE SIX IS THE ARTICLE THAT DEALS WITH EMPLOYMENT. SO IT'S SAYING FOR EMPLOYMENT, THERE'S A DIFFERENT DEFINITION. AND SKIP TO THE, SKIP THE SECOND ONE, RIGHT NOW, ARTICLE, WHAT THEY'RE REFERRING TO IS, IS, UH, AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PAGE, UH, ARTICLE SIX, SECTION 1, 6 1 L. THEN IT SAYS, RELIGION WITH RESPECT TO EMPLOYERS INCLUDES ALL ASPECTS OF RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCE AND PRACTICE, AS WELL AS BELIEF. UNLESS AN EMPLOYER DEMONSTRATES THAT THIS WOULD BE, THEY ARE UNABLE TO REASONABLY ACCOMMODATE AN EMPLOYEES OR PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEES RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCE OR PRACTICE WITHOUT UNDUE HARDSHIP ON THE CONDUCT OF THE EMPLOYER'S BUSINESS. UH, THAT SAME LANGUAGE THAT THOSE TWO I JUST READ, UH, ALSO IS USED BY BLOOMINGTON CHAMPAIGN AND DANVILLE. NOW WE ALSO HAVE THIS OTHER ONE, AND YOU MIGHT REMEMBER FROM OUR LAST MONTH THAT THIS HAS, HAS BEEN VERY PROBLEMATIC. IT'S A, THIS IS ALSO IN THE EMPLOYMENT SECTION UNDER ARTICLE SIX, WHERE IT SAYS YOU CANNOT FILE AGAINST AN EMPLOYER WHO MEETS THIS DEFINITION. WELL, WE HAVE THE CITY THERE, WHICH WE ALREADY KNOW, BUT THEN IT HAS THIS, UH, LONG, PRETTY CONVOLUTED SENTENCE. AND WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS IT. SPRINGFIELD HAS THAT. I'VE, I'VE SEEN SOME IN SOME OTHER CITIES. UH, AND BOY, I MEAN, I'VE HAD SEVERAL LAWYERS TRYING [00:25:01] TO FIND A LOOPHOLE IN THERE FOR A NURSING HOME OR A SCHOOL FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, BOTH OF THOSE HAVE BEEN THE ONES, I THINK NURSING HOMES AND SCHOOLS THAT SAID, THIS EXCLUDES US. 'CAUSE IT SAYS EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION OR NONPROFIT N NURSING INSTITUTION. BUT THEN YOU GO ON, IT SAYS, WELL, THAT INSTITUTION MUST BE CONDUCTED BY, AND FOR THOSE WHO RELY UPON TREATMENT, BY PRAYER, THROUGH SPIRITUAL MEANS, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. YOU KNOW? AND I DON'T, AND THAT'S WHERE IT GETS REALLY CONFUSING, AS DO, WELL, DOES EVERY CHURCH, DOES EVERY RELIGION RELY ON TREATMENT BY PRAYER? PROBABLY NOT. UH, SO, SO HERE, I MEAN, THE QUESTION IS THAT I, IN MY MIND IS, COULD, IF WE GOT RID OF THAT AND KEPT THE TOP ONE AND THE BOTTOM ONE, WOULD THAT BE SUFFICIENT? OR WE COULD ALSO ADD, IF YOU FLIP OVER TO THE BACK, IF YOU'RE WITH ME, I KNOW THIS IS COMPLICATED. SO, UH, WE COULD ALSO ADD LANGUAGE SUCH AS BLOOMINGTON NORMAL OR URBANA USES, UH, YOU KNOW, UP AT THE TOP SAYING THAT NOTHING, BASICALLY NOTHING SHALL PROHIBIT A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION FROM ENGAGE. I WOULDN'T USE NORMALS, UH, SHALL, UH, LET'S SAY URBANA. NOW THEY INCLUDE POLITICS HERE, BUT LET'S SKIP THAT FOR RIGHT NOW. WE GET BACK TO THAT. I GUESS NOTHING CONTAINED IN THE PROVISIONS OF THIS ARTICLE SHALL BE CONSTRUED TO BAR ANY RELIGIOUS OR POLITICAL ORGANIZATION FROM GIVING PREFERENCE TO PERSONS OF THE SAME POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS PERSUASION IN THE CONDUCTING OF SAID ORGANIZATIONS ACTIVITIES. AND THAT WOULD KIND OF CREATE A BLANKET EXEMPTION FOR RELIGIOUS BODIES TO SAY, WE CAN HIRE, UH, PEOPLE OF OUR OWN RELIGION, UH, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S KEY TO OUR MATERIAL, IT'S KEY TO OUR ORGANIZATION. SO AGAIN, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A MOSQUE HIRING A PRESBYTERIAN MINISTER, YOU KNOW, UH, SO, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD, UH, THE REASON , THE REASON I DIDN'T, I DON'T LIKE NORMALS, IS IT SAYS, NOTHING SHALL PROHIBIT A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION OR ASSOCIATION OR SOCIETY FROM ENGAGING IN UNLAWFUL DISCRIMINATION. WELL, IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S NOT UNLAWFUL DISCRIMINATION , SO YOU'D HAVE TO GET RID OF THE WORD UNLAWFUL. YOU'D HAVE TO SAY DIS JUST GET, SAY DISCRIMINATION. BUT, UH, SO AGAIN, THERE'S, I'M THROWING A LOT OF STUFF AT YOU. UH, SO THIS LANGUAGE, THIS LANGUAGE FROM, UH, EITHER BLOOMINGTON OR URBANA, WHERE WOULD WE INSERT THAT? THAT WOULD PROBABLY GO TOWARDS THE TOP, NOT IN THE EMPLOYMENT SECTION, BECAUSE I THINK THEY'RE GIVING THEM BLANKET EXEMPTION. UH, UH, SO FOR EXAMPLE, IN RENTAL HOUSING, LET'S SAY A CHURCH, THERE MAY STILL BE SOME CHURCHES THAT HAVE PARSONAGES, YOU KNOW, UH, THEY CAN DISCRIMINATE IN THE RENTAL THAT PARSONAGE. SO YOU'D WANNA KEEP HOUSING IN THERE? I THINK, UH, WELL, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS REC, THEY DON'T CHARGE RENT FOR THAT. I DON'T THINK THAT'S A REAL ESTATE TRANSACTION. BUT, UH, I'M JUST KIND OF SPINNING OUT THINGS . UH, BUT I WOULD, I GUESS I WOULD, WHAT DO YOU THINK? I MEAN, I'M THINKING THAT WOULD GO UP TOWARDS THE TOP WHERE, LIKE, BEFORE WE GET INTO EMPLOYMENT AND CREDIT, JUST DOING LIKE A BLANKET THING THAT COVERS, THAT GIVES A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION TO ANY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION, YOU KNOW, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CARRYING OUT ITS ACTIVITIES. UM, OKAY. I'M NOT CLEAR, WHEN YOU SAY TOP, WHAT ARE WE? OH, UH, I'M PROBABLY ARTICLE FOUR. 'CAUSE ARTICLE TWO IS ALL OUR DEFINITIONS. ARTICLE THREE IS ABOUT THE COMMISSION. AND THEN ARTICLE FOUR IS ABOUT WHAT KIND OF CASES WE CAN TAKE. AND IT'S, AND THIS IS BEFORE GETTING INTO EMPLOYMENT OR ANY, ANY, ANY OF THE INDIVIDUAL TYPES OF CASES. UH, OKAY. YEAH. SO IT JUST, UH, YEAH. SO YOU'RE SUGGESTING WE USE ONE OF THESE, UM, YEAH, YEAH. DEFINITIONS FROM ANOTHER YEAH. I, I COMMUNITY IN ARTICLE FOUR AND DROPPING, UM, B YEAH. [00:30:01] UNDER ARTICLE SIX. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S, YEAH, I'M ONE C TWO. YEAH. I'M A, YEAH, IF YOU ASK ME WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME, IT'S GETTING RID OF THAT ARTICLE SIX, SECTION C ONE, C TWO, WHATEVER. 'CAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN A REAL HEADACHE. BUT, BUT I THINK IT MIGHT HELP TO ALSO TO PUT THAT LANGUAGE IN FROM, UH, BLOOMINGTON OR URBANA AS WELL. SO I JUST, AGAIN, LET'S, IT'S A COMMISSION DECISION. IT'S NOT MINE. I'M JUST, SO THIS, THIS WOULD RE WOULD REPLACE, UH, LETTER B THEN, ESSENTIALLY? UH, YEAH, IT WOULD, IT WOULD, YES. YES AND NO. I MEAN, IT WOULD, LETTER B, I'M SORRY, UH, ON YOUR NOTES, UH, NUMBER TWO ART. OH, ARTICLES THAT, YEAH. UH, IT WOULD REPLACE IT, BUT IT WOULD GIVE, IT, IT WOULD BE MORE BROAD. IN OTHER WORDS, IT WOULD GIVE A, A BROADER RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION. IT WOULDN'T LIMIT IT TO JUST, UH, EMPLOYMENT. AND IT WOULDN'T LIMIT IT TO RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS THAT HEALED THROUGH PRAYER. MS. GOODMAN, I KNOW YOU HAD SOMETHING THERE, . OH, UM, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT I WAS GONNA, WELL, I LIKE THE, UH, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, I LIKE THE URBANA LANGUAGE, UH, FOR THE RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION. YEAH. AND I AGREE THAT IT SHOULD GO TOWARD THE BEGINNING SO THAT IT COVERS EVERYTHING THEREAFTER. YEAH. YEAH. AND IN FACT, YEAH, I THINK ONE OF THEM REPEATS THAT LANGUAGE IN EVERY, EVERY ARTICLE. BUT I THINK JUST PUT IT, PUT IT UP, LIKE I SAY AT THE TOP, I MEAN LIKE ARTICLE FOUR, WHERE IT'S A GENERAL STATEMENT ABOUT WHAT KIND OF CASES CAN BE BROUGHT, YOU KNOW, AND, BUT THE URBANA WORDING INCLUDES POLITICAL. YEAH. AND THAT I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER ANIMAL ALTOGETHER. YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT? YEAH. YES. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN WAITING TO TALK ABOUT, AND THAT'S WHY I SAID RELIGIOUS FOR THE RELIGIOUS PIECE. YEAH. BASICALLY MINUS THE POLITICAL. WELL, YEAH. UM, I AGREE. I LIKE THE, OF THE THREE, I LIKE THE URBANA THE BETTER. BUT JUST KIND OF BEING THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE IN HERE, YOU KNOW, IT, IT WOULD SEEM THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE COULD BE HIRED IN THE, IN THE CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE THAT WE'RE IN TODAY. SOMEONE COULD BE HIRED AND THEN MAYBE CHANGE THEIR PERSUASION AFTER THEY'VE BEEN HIRED. AND WOULD THAT THEN, WOULD YOU NO LONGER, UH, UH, WOULD YOU BE IN, UH, OPPOSITION TO THE PERSUASION IN CONDUCTING THE, UH, THE ORGANIZATION'S ACTIVITIES? UM, I, I, I THINK, BOY, THAT, THAT'S A BLURRY SYSTEM OR BLURRY. AND YOU, YOU HAVE RECOMMENDED HOW ADDING POLITICAL GROUPS TO, TO COVERAGE. SO YOU HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT PEOPLE CANNOT BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST FOR POLITICAL REASONS IN ANY OF THIS STUFF. BUT LET'S SAY YOU'RE THE REPUBLICAN CENTRAL COMMITTEE OF MACON COUNTY, AND YOU'RE HIRING SOMEBODY TO BE YOUR FIELD ORGANIZER, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA HIRE MR. PELLS. POINT, WELL TAKEN , BUT THEN MR. PELLS MIGHT COME BACK AND FILE A DISCRIMINATION SUIT AGAINST YOU. UH, YEAH. I, I THINK THERE'D BE A PRETTY COMPLETE VETTING PROCESS FOR THAT POSITION. I'M NOT SURE THE POLITICAL, I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, UH, POLITICAL ASPECTS IN SOME OF THE OTHER SECTIONS, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE RIGHT IN HERE WHEN WE'RE CONCENTRATING ON THE RELIGIOUS, UH, ISSUE. YEAH. YEAH. IT, IT'S, IT'S, UH, CERTAINLY RAISES A FLAG THAT YOU MIGHT NOT WANNA FIGHT AT. AND YEAH, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP IT CLEAN. 'CAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RELIGION HERE. YEAH. AND THAT'S JUST KIND OF THROWN IN. YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, IT SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT REGARDLESS. OKAY. IS THAT CONSENSUS TO NOT INCLUDE THE POLITICAL AND THAT, AND TO GO WITH YOUR BAND OF LANGUAGE? CAN I GO POSSIBLY OFF TOPIC THOUGH? THE, THE THOUGHT COMES TO MY MIND THAT, UH, YOU HAVE A STORE AND YOU HAVE A GAY COUPLE WHO WANTS TO COME IN AND GET A WEDDING CAKE. MM-HMM. . AND THEY SAY, WELL, NO, MY PERSONAL BELIEFS OR THIS STORE'S BELIEFS ARE TO THE CONTRARY, YOUR, YOUR SINNERS AND YOU'RE GONNA GO TO HELL. UM, IT CAN, THEY, UH, CLAIM DISCRIMINATION? THEY CAN. AND THAT'S A CASE THAT'S GONE. YOU KNOW, THAT'S BEEN, YEAH. I DON'T, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S GONE TO THE SUPREME COURT BECAUSE, UH, AND I BELIEVE SUPREME COURT RULED, YES, YOU CAN CLAIM DISCRIMINATION IN A CASE LIKE THAT. UH, BUT, AND, BUT DO YOU NEED TO INSERT THAT IN ANY WAY? UH, OR IS IT JUST ASSUMED THAT YOU CAN FILE THAT WAY IN THE, UH, [00:35:01] UH, PROCESS THAT WE HAVE? TH THIS HAS TO DO WITH RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS AS OPPOSED TO A BUSINESS THAT HAS RELIGIOUS PREJUDICE. . YEAH. IT'S A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION. SO, SO, SO IF WE CROSS OUT THE REFERENCES TO POLITICAL, SO WE'RE SAYING LEAVE URBANA THE WAY IT IS WITH POLITICAL BEING CROSSED OUT. IS THAT CORRECT? READ THAT, JUST SO WE HAVE IT IN THE RECORD, IF THAT'S OKAY. NOTHING CONTAINED IN THE PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER. 'CAUSE IT WOULD BE A CHAPTER WITH US. LEMME START AGAIN. NOTHING CONTAINED IN THE PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER SHALL BE CONSTRUED TO BAR ANY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION FROM GIVING PREFERENCE TO PERSONS OF THE SAME RELIGIOUS PERSUASION IN THE CONDUCTING OF THE SAID ORGANIZATION'S ACTIVITIES. ARE WE IN CONSENSUS ABOUT THAT? YEAH. AGAIN, WE DON'T NEED A MOTION. JUST, ALRIGHT. UM, OKAY. I THINK THAT'S GOOD DISCUSSION. UM, IT'S A GREAT DISCUSSION. AND IS THERE ANOTHER POINT THAT WE WERE GETTING INTO, WELL, YEAH, AT THE LAST MEETING, UH, I DID ASK THE COMMISSIONERS TO LOOK AHEAD THROUGH SECTION SIX THROUGH NINE TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANYTHING THERE THAT YOU WANTED TO DISCUSS. UH, IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO DO THAT, WE COULD PUT THAT AGAIN UNTIL NEXT MONTH. WE'RE JUST ABOUT DONE IN TERMS OF THE STUFF THAT I HAD MADE NOTES OF, NOTES ON. SO WOULD YOU LIKE ANOTHER MONTH TO DO FOR THAT WORK TO JUST READ SECTION SIX THROUGH NINE? I I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT WOULD HURT ANYTHING. AND, UH, WE'LL, UH, PUT OUR MINDS TO IT AND, UH, POLISH THAT OFF IN NOVEMBER. AND I DO HAVE ONE MORE THING IN THIS, UH, HOLD ON. I WANTED TO GRAB A CURRENT COPY OF THE CODE 'CAUSE THERE'S SOMETHING IN THERE THAT KIND OF JUMPED OUT AT ME AND I DON'T KNOW, UH, I JUST BRING IT UP. IT'S IN SECTION EIGHT, WHICH IS, UH, CONCERNING, UH, REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS. THERE'S A A ON ON, THERE'S A, A PART OF THAT, AND IF YOU WANNA JUST MAKE A NOTE OF THIS EIGHT FOUR PART C WHERE IT DISCUSSES THE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION OF MULTI-FAMILY DWELLINGS. UM, AND IT DISCUSS DISCUSSES DESIGN ELEMENTS SUCH AS WHERE LIGHT SWITCHES SHOULD BE, UH, DOOR, HOW DOORS SHOULD BE DESIGNED, AN ACCESSIBLE ROUTE, REINFORCEMENT TO THE WALLS, ET CETERA. AND I GUESS MY QUESTION, AND THIS, UH, AND I'LL, I'LL ASK, UH, MS. ROGERS, BUT WE MIGHT NEED TO GO GO ACROSS THE HALL HERE AND TALK TO THE PEOPLE IN COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. IS THAT STUFF, AL THIS IS MORE CODE LANGUAGE, AND I WONDER WHETHER WE'RE DUPLICATING SOMETHING THAT, THAT THE, THAT THE, UH, PLAN INSPECTORS ALREADY DO, YOU KNOW? AND WHETHER THAT TO PUT THAT UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE COMMISSION, WHICH IS WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW, IS JUST KIND OF, IT JUST SEEMS ODD TO ME. AND IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S COVERED IN THE, IN THE BUILDING CODE. IT'S, IT'S A VERY LONG DOCUMENT THAT I WOULD BE INTERESTED. UH, COULD WE ASK THEM, COULD WE SHOW THEM THIS SECTION AND SAY, IS THAT JUST A DUPLICATE OF WHAT YOU ALREADY DO? YES, I'LL TALK TO SOMEBODY IN, UM, ECONOMIC AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. YEAH. AND SEE, SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN THERE THAT'S NOT IN WHAT THEY ALREADY DO. I SUSPECT IT IS, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT JUST SEEMED ODD THAT THE COMMISSION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO DESIGN THEIR APARTMENT BUILDINGS. . THAT'S, THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME. I, I WILL ALSO READ THIS STUFF AGAIN, BUT WE WILL, UH, SEE YOU IN NOVEMBER. , UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. ONCE AGAIN, I THANK YOU FOR, UH, LEADING US THROUGH SOMETIMES COMPLICATED TURF, UH, WITH, UH, PRECISENESS AND, UH, WILLINGNESS TO LISTEN TO QUESTIONS THAT SOMETIMES OUR OFF TOPIC. I THINK NOT, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE COMMISSION'S DILIGENCE AND SERIOUSNESS ON THIS THING. IT'S, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY WE'LL WIND UP WITH A VASTLY IMPROVED SYSTEM. WHAT WOULD YOU SUPPOSED WOULD BE THE TIMEFRAME BETWEEN WRAPPING UP OUR CONSIDERATION OF THIS AND PERHAPS REVIEWING IT, UH, AND THEN WHEN THE CITY'S LEGAL DEPARTMENT MIGHT, UM, I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S, LOOK IT OVER. YEAH. I'M JUST A HIRED CONSULTANT. [00:40:01] I DON'T, I'M NOT THE CITY THAT'S A CITY QUESTION, BUT IT'S GONNA BE A FAIRLY YEAH. LENGTHY YEAH. UH, REVIEW. YEAH. FOR, FOR THEIR PART TOO. YEAH. AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER TOO, THAT THIS WAS INITIATED BY THE FORMER CITY MANAGER AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF MR. GLEASON IS AWARE THAT WE'RE DOING THIS. DO YOU KNOW IF HE'S AWARE WHAT WE'RE UP TO? I BELIEVE HE IS AWARE. OKAY. THAT I HOPE SO, BECAUSE THAT'S, IT WOULD BE AWKWARD TO SPEND LIKE ALL THESE MEETINGS DOING THIS AND SAY, HEY, WE DIDN'T ASK YOU TO DO THAT . OKAY. AGAIN, THANK YOU COMMISSION. WELL, YOU'RE WELCOME. UH, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER, UM, BUSINESS ON THE AGENDA? I DON'T BELIEVE SO. WELL, THEN I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT. OH, COMMISSIONER KELLER. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU COMMISSIONERS THAT TWO WEEKS AGO AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING, OUR COMMISSIONER JERRY PES, THEY AGREED TO NAME I'LL PUT A SIGN UP OVER THE KING STREET BY OUR NORTHEAST COMMUNITY FUND IN HONOR OF JERRY PELLS. IT WAS PASSED. AND THAT WILL BE DONE. WE'LL HAVE A DEDICATION OF IT. AND, UH, I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT WITH THE COMMISSIONERS. CONGRATULATIONS. DO THEY HAVE YOUR OWN STREET? I'M HUMBLED AND HONORED. YEAH. YOU ONLY HAVE TO GIVE 50 YEARS OF YOUR LIFE TO, UH, EARN SOMETHING LIKE THAT. . UH, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT HE'S INVESTED THE LION'S SHARE OF HIS ADULT LIFE TO, UH, NORTHEAST FUND AND BY EXTENSION TO DECATUR. SO CONGRATULATIONS AS WELL. UH, IT'S HARD TO TOP THAT. SO, UH, IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANY, ANY BUSINESS THAT NOW IS THE TIME OR ELSE, UH, I WOULD ENTERTAIN THE MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO MOVE SECOND. COMMISSIONER SLE SLEETER, UH, MADE THE MOTION. AND COMMISSIONER KELLER SECONDED. CAN WE TAKE THE ROLE CHAIRPERSON ZA AYE. VICE CHAIRPERSON GOODMAN AYE. COMMISSIONER SCHLATER AYE. COMMISSIONER OWENS. COMMISSIONER KELLER AYE. COMMISSIONER MCREYNOLDS. AYE. COMMISSIONER IBRAHIM. COMMISSIONER PELLS. AYE. COMMISSIONER LER AYE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP AND, UH, WE'LL SEE YOU IN NOVEMBER. VERY GOOD. IT, IT, IT'S KIND OF, IT'S KIND OF NICE TO HAVE AN HOUR WINDOW WHERE WE HAVE TO DO THINGS WITHIN AN HOUR, REALLY FOCUSING ON, DID YOU SEE MY EMAILS. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.